I think everyone would go for the second, the newest version, right?
I've been thinking a bit lately about baptism, in both 'versions', water and Spirit and why there is such a big issue around them. I totally understand the baptism of the Spirit, I couldn't live without it, but water - what's the big issue?
We talked about this subject in one of our lectures yesterday so it's sparked a few new thoughts in my head so I'm finally making a big effort and letting it out!
I've been reading parts of the Old Testament in my rations, and I've found in the books of Moses that if something is made 'unclean' it is to be washed with water to be made clean (Leviticus). I was wondering if water baptism evolved from this over many hundreds of years, but that's just a side note...
So, water baptism was carried out by John as a baptism of repentance as a promise salvation that was on it's way. As it says in Luke 3 referring to the prophecy of Isaiah;
"A voice of one calling in the desert,
'Prepare the way for the Lord,
make straight paths for him.
Every valley shall be filled in,
every mountain and hill made low.
The crooked roads shall become straight,
the rough ways smooth.
6And all mankind will see God's salvation."
John was just preparing the way for Jesus, who brings salvation through His blood and then sent the Holy Spirit, the 'upgrade' to water baptism. Once you've called on Jesus to be your Saviour, you will have repented of your sins which separate you from Him and then you receive the Spirit all in one 'version'. [This is also helpful when you find yourself in the desert where there is no water, face to face with Jesus...]
This 'version 2', the baptism of the Holy Spirit, comes with power and all the benefits from the first along with SO much more. Why would you go backward and live off the promise of the second, by living with the first?
Your thoughts?
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you;
and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria,
and to the ends of the earth."
Acts 1:8
7 comments:
Now this is a really intriguing kettle of fish... :-)
First, I know that the Jews were doing water baptisms long before John's time. I'd have to read up to discuss in any decent way, though!
Now, in Acts Paul? came across some gentile believers who had been baptised in the spirit - and he made a point of 'going backward' and water-baptising them. He seemed to regard it as an important step, regardless of which order the process followed.
That's not said in order to 'prove' that you're wrong in what you say, btw. I just find it interesting. Perhaps Paul's actions had NOTHING to do water/spirit baptism and EVERYTHING to do with Jew/Gentile relations...
They're not in competition (water and spirit baptisms), they serve different purposes. Making one 'backwards' is just not helpful.
Annette,
Since I'm trying to still get my head around this, can you explain to me the two purposes?
..If you had been baptised in the Holy Spirit would you then go and get baptised with water? If I've been baptised with the Spirit, I've been made holy so I've already recieved forgiveness of my sins, so then recieving the baptism of repentance (isn't that what the purpose for Johns baptism is?) is a backward step to me or does this go against your understanding of the two purposes?
Interested in your thoughts :)
Baptism - Baptized by the Spirit i an activity of God whereby we are 'placed in Christ' and it happend at conversion. It is not a 'second work' to be sought after. Whater baptism also has to do with being 'placed in Christ' (Rom.6 - a text that is all too often not understood or wrongly used by Salvos or spiritualized, or changed to mean Spirit baptism). Baptism recapitulates the story of Israel's escape from Egypt and their going through the Red Sea (baptism).
Reading different views is interesting. Just my thoughts on the topic...Following on from the last comment. When I was baptized we learnt in the classes following up to it that baptism in water is a sign and witness and public declaration to your friends, family and church family that you belong to Christ Jesus. You are born again and baptized by the holy spirit as soon as you repent and believe and know Jesus Christ as your true Father God...the water baptism is symbolic of having been crucified with Christ, but also being raised to life with Christ (coming out of the water). I wanted to publicly share with my friends and family the joy of having Christ wash my sins away and his spirit living in me and having been raised to life with him! What a declaration! :)
Question, why doesn't the Salvation Army baptize people? I've heard it's because they believe you don't need to be baptized to be a Christian. Is that the real reason? As I said in my comment the water is just a public symbolic declaration, because you are baptized and filled with the holy spirit as soon as you come to know Jesus. Just interested in the Army's view on this...
This is a very debatable topic.
Is baptism required for salvation - no! What if someone repented in their last few minutes of their life and wasn't baptised - if they called on the Name of Jesus and believed with their heart - they were saved. If someone accepted Jesus as their Saviour in the desert where there was no water and couldn't be baptised, were they were saved?
Sometimes people get too caught up on actions instead of the heart and your personal holiness. Too often people go to confession and then their conscience is clear,[eg look at the guys in the underworld - they go to confession and walked away unchanged, but they feel better!] others get baptised or again others go and take comunion once a year and think that's all that's required to go to Heaven, but are they right? It's not based on the outward signs - it's about what is going on in your heart. If you want to be baptised, if that helps you feel a connection with God, go for it, do it - same with communion and confession - but just make sure your in your heart you love Jesus and are following Him.
Hope that helps, just a few more of my thoughts.
This is quite a debatable topic, I agree! I am not disagreeing with you in any way either, I agree with all you said. As I said before in my comment the water is just symbolic...no water is required for salvation. I completely agree that it's about what's in the heart of a person. Man looks at the outward appearance but God looks at the heart - 1 Samuel 16:7.
Thank you for sharing more of your thoughts.
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